How Toronto’s recreation ecosystem is on the rise | Jason Lepine interview

XP Gaming drew greater than 700 folks to its 2024 XP Recreation Developer Summit in Toronto, Canada, final week to listen to talks about mental property and recreation growth.

I went to the occasion and moderated a panel. It was good to hearken to talks and speak about what it takes to maintain recreation communities — like Canada’s native recreation ecosystem — going sturdy at a time of layoffs.

The occasion had a variety of indie recreation corporations in addition to some triple-A veterans as effectively. With the frequent subject of mental property in video games, the audio system embrace Michael Schmalz, former president of Digital Extremes, maker of Warframe; Kate Edwards, CEO of Geogrify; Xalavier Nelson Jr., founding father of Unusual Scaffold, writer of video games similar to El Paso Elsewhere and Stranger Issues VR; Jason Della Rocca, founding father of Execution Labs; and Daniel Posner, CEO at End Line Video games.

I moderated a panel with Amir Satvat, director of enterprise growth of Tencent Video games; Christine Kev, board member at Ladies in Video games France; and Kim Gibson, program marketing consultant at Interactive Digital Media Ontario Creates. We talked about Satvat’s recreation job sources and upholding recreation communities at a troublesome time. Satvat lately famous that recreation job seekers who use his sources are 84% extra prone to get a job than those that don’t. However nonetheless, 92% of these looking for jobs, over 12 months, won’t discover a function in video games.

That’s a tricky stat. Nonetheless, I used to be impressed with the expansion of Toronto’s recreation companies. Jason Lepine, CEO of XP Gaming, informed me that there are greater than 300 recreation corporations in Toronto, which compares favorably with a variety of cities in North America — although it’s nonetheless smaller than the 500-plus corporations in Montreal.

Lepine sarted out at Fanatic Gaming, which hosted Canada’s shopper online game conference, EGLX, which drew greater than 30,000 folks. He centered on a dev convention inside that occasion, after which left the corporate to construct XP Recreation Summit again in 2019. Then the pandemic hit and Lepine needed to do digital occasions for 2 years in a row. In 2023, the occasion was held in particular person, and this yr was the second such present on June 13-14. About 250 recreation corporations confirmed up on the occasion. I interviewed Lepine concerning the occasion.

Right here’s an edited transcript of our interview.

GamesBeat: How did you get began with XP Gaming?

Jason Lepine: I began on the finish of 2019. Our first XP Recreation Summit was purported to happen in 2020. The pandemic canceled that. The rationale I began, I used to work at an organization referred to as Fanatic Gaming, the place we hosted EGLX. It was Canada’s largest online game conference. It was a B-to-C occasion in Toronto. We had 30,000 friends. As I used to be constructing the programming for that occasion and rising it, I used to be attempting to draw the business. I observed that the business wasn’t concerned about coming to a B-to-C occasion, although, builders and indies.

As I used to be digging into why, I discovered that the wants had been completely different, after all. One yr we piloted a developer convention on high of EGLX that was restricted to 300 tickets. We offered out the pilot. I noticed a variety of potential there. That’s why I left the corporate to construct alone and begin the XP Recreation Summit, which was initially referred to as the XP Recreation Developer Summit. We made it just a little shorter. Via sheer willpower, by way of the pandemic, I simply continued iterating and studying and listening to suggestions. That’s the place we’re at this time.

GamesBeat: The primary occasion was all digital, proper?

Lepine: Sure. In 2020 we streamed it on Mixer. It was a really fundamental–I don’t actually matter that one. In 2021 we did a full digital convention. We had some on-line conferences. We had talks. Then in 2022 we did a hybrid occasion. Every thing was each on-line and in-person. Final yr was the yr we hit the imaginative and prescient I had for the present. It was by way of that occasion that we showcased what we may do.

Shortly after, we received the chance to do MIGS in Montreal. This yr was the primary yr we needed to now construct a convention that didn’t compete with MIGS, however complemented it. That’s why we went with the theme of IP this yr. MIGS may be very B-to-B. It attracts a variety of worldwide consideration. It has an id, despite the fact that it’s modified during the last 20 years. I noticed that there was a chance to speak about IP and video video games right here in Canada that no different convention actually touches on as a spotlight. That’s what we did this yr.

GamesBeat: How did the attendance change through the years?

Lepine: Coming into my very own firm, I had a variety of relationships with the tutorial facet, the colleges. Our first yr, our greatest accomplice was a faculty. We had a variety of college students. It was extra of a junior crowd. Through the years we’ve managed to usher in extra resolution makers, enterprise leaders. We’re nonetheless in a section of–we appeal to an equal quantity of resolution makers and builders. However this yr we’ve far fewer college students. That was by design. We didn’t have a pupil ticket offered publicly this yr. It was additionally our most costly yr for tickets. We had a VIP ticket and a convention cross as the one two choices we had.

GamesBeat: About how many individuals did you draw to every one over time?

Lepine: I received’t depend the digital occasions, as a result of I can’t affirm who truly logged in. Our first hybrid occasion, we began at about 400 friends. Final yr and this yr we had related numbers. I don’t know the ultimate depend proper now. We had about 750 final yr and it seems like will probably be related this yr.

GamesBeat: Are you drawing folks from outdoors of Toronto, outdoors of Canada?

Lepine: Completely. Final yr I feel it was one thing like 40% from outdoors of Toronto. This yr, I do know we’ve greater than 10 international locations represented. We did draw extra worldwide consideration. We had a really completely different partnership with our venue. There are various extra rooms being booked right here, which reveals we’ve a variety of vacationers. A really wholesome portion of our viewers is from overseas. We’re comfortable to see so many individuals touring for this occasion.

GamesBeat: What does that let you know about how builders need to collect?

Lepine: After I set out initially, my ambitions had been–I wished to have a GDC on the east coast. I pitched it that method to folks. I don’t say that anymore, as a result of GDC is huge. It’s 30,000 folks. What I’ve discovered is there’s an urge for food, a robust need for the business to attach at smaller occasions. Our occasion is 750. MIGS was 1,200 final yr. I need to maintain our occasions to that measurement. Between 700 and a couple of,000 is a candy spot the place you get a variety of enterprise performed and meet a variety of nice folks, however the occasion is ready to create and curate a extra intimate expertise, somewhat than, “Right here’s a jungle. Attempt to discover a method to do enterprise right here.”

GamesBeat: What have you ever discovered concerning the make-up of Canada’s recreation studios?

Lepine: I can solely converse to Toronto and Montreal thus far. They’re very completely different. Montreal is residence to most of our triple-A studios right here in Canada. That’s the place they cluster. After we’re doing a B-to-B present there, after all we get much more discussions and enterprise round triple-A studios. In Ontario and Toronto we’ve a really sturdy impartial scene. I feel we’ve greater than 300 studios right here. The wants of the studios listed here are very completely different.

It’s not unique, however whereas I see indies in Montreal that want funding too, I see a lot bigger offers being negotiated there. Outsourcing partnerships at these ranges. Right here in Toronto it’s much more small studios in search of funding, in search of companions, in search of publishers, in search of data to share with one another. How are you constructing your organization? What methods work in 2024? The content material and the make-up of who we invite is completely different between the 2.

GamesBeat: What number of studios and corporations do you might have at every present?

Lepine: At MIGS we’ve greater than 500 corporations attending. I’m positive there are much more in Quebec. I feel it’s round 30 triple-A studios. Right here, final yr we had greater than 200 corporations. After I checked final week we had been over 250 registered this yr, and we at all times see a spike in registration on the finish. I wouldn’t be shocked if we handed 300 this yr at XP.

GamesBeat: Ubisoft has a studio right here. Do you might have different triple-A studios right here in Toronto?

Lepine: Now we have Ubisoft. That’s the large one. Sure Affinity established themselves right here in 2019. Then we’ve some bigger cell studios. Now we have Zynga. Rockstar has a small studio. They’re very quiet. We don’t get the possibility to listen to a lot about what they do. Sledgehammer lately opened. And Behaviour Interactive additionally has a satellite tv for pc workplace right here. We’re seeing extra triple-A studios opening places of work right here. It’s on a progress trajectory.

GamesBeat: Does it really feel like Toronto is pulling in folks from elsewhere, the identical means Canada is generally?

Lepine: When it comes to establishing new companies? In Ontario and Toronto there’s very wholesome tax credit score help. The quantity is someplace round 40%. What’s attention-grabbing is there’s so much taking place in Quebec proper now. Quebec additionally had a really wholesome tax credit score, however there’s a brand new legislation introduced a few months in the past that may see the credit score decreased over the following 5 years. That’s going to impression the panorama of the gaming business in Canada.

The most effective tax credit we see are on the east coast proper now, in Nova Scotia. Each province has a unique providing. Toronto is a world hub for Canada, so there’s a variety of alternative right here. Historically for video games there weren’t alternatives just like the XP Recreation Summit for folks to come back and do enterprise, however we at all times hear good issues from individuals who journey right here. “Lastly I’ve an excuse to come back to Toronto.” It’s very accessible by prepare, aircraft, all of that.

GamesBeat: Have you ever adopted the talk round that transfer to cut back the Quebec tax breaks?

Lepine: I let our companions in Quebec, La Guilde, do the work of advocacy there. They’re undoubtedly representing the sport business and preventing for these credit. I’m attempting to work with the federal government to point out them that possibly the results of those selections will not be what they intend. There’s dialogue taking place. There might have been a disconnect between what the federal government meant to resolve with that discount versus the consequence. From what I hear, it’s going to impression a variety of small companies, small studios, and never simply within the online game business. It’s throughout visible results, particular results as effectively.

If you take a look at a metropolis like Montreal that’s been identified for its inventive tradition for therefore many a long time, to have that pink flag of the federal government saying they received’t help it like they’ve, it actually throws that business into the unknown. What’s it going to be like within the subsequent 5 years?

GamesBeat: What impact has distant work had on corporations deciding the place to place staff, the place to place hubs? It seems like a number of the insurance policies that had been in place possibly don’t work anymore if everyone seems to be all unfold out.

Lepine: Distant work wasn’t round when these insurance policies had been developed 10 or 20 years in the past. When you might have the choice of distant work and you’ve got these tax incentives, not simply in Canada, however around the globe–we’re seeing locations in Australia, cities and provinces, doing a variety of incentives for the business to arrange there. I don’t have the reply. I don’t know the way it works. To my understanding, you continue to must arrange a studio. If we’re working on the similar firm and there’s a ridiculous tax credit score in, say, British Columbia, I might nonetheless have to register the corporate there. You’d must be an worker there. I feel you’d must reside there. There are some challenges. It’s not as simple as simply throwing folks the place it appears finest. However a dialog with people who find themselves extra acquainted with it than I’m may discover how that impacts issues.

GamesBeat: Does there nonetheless appear to be a movement of recreation corporations from the U.S. into Canada? Or does it really feel like that’s not taking place as a lot anymore?

Lepine: I don’t have an excessive amount of visibility into that. The sentiment appears to be that folks will work the place they need to reside, in the end. It comes right down to high quality of life and magnificence of life. Not essentially in gaming, however within the content material creator house, for instance, we’ve a variety of well-known content material creators originating from Toronto who reside in California now. You don’t have winter on the similar stage there. They get to bond with different content material creators in Los Angeles and locations like that. There are many corporations that may deliver creators to particular occasions and activations. There’s an incentive for that business to go there.

If you take a look at recreation studios, it comes right down to the place the folks–I do know somebody who was working at Riot Video games over on the west coast. He was very profitable. He left as a result of he mentioned, “If I can try this at Riot, I can do it with my very own studio.” He moved to Waterloo, Ontario, about an hour away from right here. After I requested him why he got here right here, it was only a matter of life decisions. The tax credit helped, nevertheless it actually got here right down to–his crew is all distant. He’s working with people in Texas, in California, right here in Canada. It’s a really fashionable method to do enterprise.

GamesBeat: What’s subsequent in your mission highway map? What are a number of the belongings you need to do?

Lepine: I at all times inform everybody that XP Gaming–we’re not an occasions firm. We simply occur to make good occasions. The mission for the corporate is to attach the online game business. We began the place I reside in Toronto. We expanded to Montreal. Later this yr we’re increasing to Vancouver. Now we have different plans in 2025 to cowl one other space, though we’re not able to announce. From that time, Canada can be well-connected in my eyes. However actually, our imaginative and prescient is to work across the globe, in different international locations, and create that connection.

Occasions are a good way to create connections, a good way to run into folks, to make introductions. That head to head, as we noticed by way of the pandemic, won’t ever get replaced. However we’re additionally taking a look at different platforms and expertise. How can we join folks outdoors of occasions? What companions do we have to assist make these connections higher?

We simply introduced the Recreation Caviar partnership, which is able to kick issues off at MIGS. That lets us join folks in one other means. Proper now, at this time, anyone can go on the Recreation Caviar platform and join with a developer in search of a service supplier. If I’m a service supplier I can go there and discover some folks. That’s basically what occurs at our occasions. Recreation Caviar does that year-round. However once more, it’s not the identical as working head to head. That’s the place we noticed a chance to accomplice and leverage our strengths to create extra of these deal flows.

GamesBeat: Does XP Gaming qualify for a tax credit score itself?

Lepine: We don’t. We’re not seen as making video games. I say we’re not an occasions firm, however within the eyes of everybody else we’re an occasions firm. We get no credit. We fall in a wierd house. We’re a for-profit firm, so we don’t get entry to the grants that help initiatives like this. However we’re not a recreation studio, so we don’t get any of these credit both. We fall in between all the federal government help.

GamesBeat: Do any authorities teams sponsor what you do, although?

Lepine: Sure, that’s true. Town of Toronto is one among our sponsors. They’re sturdy supporters and believers in what we’re doing. We’re attracting extra eyes, extra folks, extra companies to town. Over time they’ve undoubtedly seen this funding repay. They hope to draw extra companies right here and additional nurture the sport business.

Disclosure: XP Gaming paid my method to Toronto, the place I moderated a panel on communities in gaming.