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Even amongst a protracted listing of weird Donald Trump moments, this clip was a head-turner: The previous president asking his interviewer a collection of questions on his cocaine use. “That’s down and soiled, isn’t it?” Trump requested Theo Von, who interviewed him on August 20 for his YouTube podcast, This Previous Weekend.
The clip went viral nearly instantly, not solely as a result of it’s uncommon to listen to a presidential candidate so overtly discussing drug utilization, however as a result of Trump, for as soon as, appeared genuinely taken with a dialog that wasn’t about himself. It was additionally an odd “…who?” second for these unfamiliar with Von, a mulleted humorist turned podcaster, within the type of Joe Rogan. Digital media has responded with a collection of Theo Von explainers, making an attempt to convey what in regards to the comparatively unobtrusive comedian might have caught Trump’s consideration.
However the truth is, there actually isn’t that a lot to elucidate — at the least not about Von himself. The shifts in web tradition that introduced him his platform, although, are a bit extra attention-grabbing.
Von — his full identify is Theodor von Kurnatowski — is one thing of a one-size-fits-all commentator, one whose private political views appear anodyne sufficient to make him palatable to folks throughout the political spectrum; he interviewed Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) the week simply prior. With Trump, Von caught primarily to the private (mutual mates from the world of UFC, Child Rock’s brother’s golf swing, sobriety, how good the Trump boys are at looking) earlier than getting frivolously political (they briefly mentioned well being care reform however largely talked about how a lot they hate lobbyists). The interview’s huge viral dialog about cocaine got here when Von tried in useless to get Trump to speak coverage concerning the opioid epidemic. The following chat about doing medicine was Trump redirecting the topic, but it surely was far more aligned with Von’s typical podcast conversations, which usually veer away from extra incendiary topics and towards matters like wrangling drunk mall Santas.
A veteran of the identical early-2000s actuality TV business that former Concern Issue host Rogan as soon as thrived in, Von first made his mark as a younger contestant on MTV’s actuality journey competitors present Highway Guidelines. He later gained acclaim on comedian competitors exhibits like Final Comedian Standing and Actuality Bites Again, holding his personal towards different comedians like Amy Schumer and Tiffany Haddish. Within the early period of comedians turning into podcasters and vloggers, Von turned common as a visitor on different standups’ exhibits, all whereas his personal present, launched in 2016, took off and grew to its present viewers of almost 3 million subscribers.
The interview, which the pair alluded to having been orchestrated by UFC CEO Dana White, was apparently a part of a latest collection of drop-ins to UFC-adjacent podcasters, together with Von, Adin Ross, and Logan Paul. But there’s much more at play right here than Trump interesting to wrestling fandom. In his e-newsletter, author Max Learn coined the time period “dipshit outreach” to explain the type of everyman tour Trump and his operating mate Sen. JD Vance have launched into. Learn’s thesis is that Von, together with the opposite podcasts, vlogs, and livestreams that Trump has appeared on, appeal to a selected kind of Trump-loving demographic. As he places it, these are “guys who like ‘edgy,’ trollish, hedonistic, attention-seeking personalities.”
Von has skillfully branded himself as a relatable, down-to-earth kind, a Southern boy initially from what he’s described as the agricultural, poor aspect of Covington, Louisiana. He comes throughout as extra taken with folks than of their politics, so we’d consider Von as roughly on the healthful finish of the troll-magnet spectrum. That could be true in comparison with the opposite males on Trump’s roster, however he has had his moments.
Most notably, his 2015 look on Bertcast with Bert Kreischer contains an prolonged phase through which Von repeatedly drops the n-word — onerous ‘r.’ Von couches his use in an anecdote through which he claims that Black children in his neighborhood have been those mockingly utilizing the phrase, which he’s simply conveying to his viewers. He then proceeds, with Kreischer, to spend a number of minutes expounding upon why his use of the n-word on this context is okay, really. That’s not the one time he and Kreischer defended the indefensible; final 12 months, he joined Kreischer’s present Two Bears, One Cave to do the identical form of performative justification — this time for white males doing blackface.
Whereas troublesome to take heed to, these conversations sum up what would possibly set Von barely aside from a few of his colleagues in comedy — he doesn’t suppose simply anybody ought to be capable to say the n-word due to free speech; he thinks he personally will get to say it, as a result of he by some means earned it. As for blackface, he doesn’t suppose it ought to “rely” when it’s donned by somebody who’s marginalized another way, as a result of that particular person additionally by some means earned it. That is, in America, a complete kind of man.
That is precisely the type of content material Von’s demographic loves and the type of contrarianism Trump himself delights in and gravitates towards. Although most of Von’s more moderen content material is inoffensive, it’s not insignificant that his recognition was constructed on this type of vibe.
Von is older than each Ross and Paul, who carry a extra direct attraction to Gen Z. However Von’s personal persona, whereas much less brash and irony-tinged, has its personal broad attract; very similar to nation mega-star Morgan Wallen, he’s often self-effacing and self-deprecating, each as a method of performing relatability and as a method of preempting any ethical objections to his tone. Like Wallen, he’s already confessed to being an imperfect narrator and commentator, so how are you going to hate him for it?
His stand-up comedy weaponizes this technique as nicely. At one level throughout a 2012 Comedy Central particular, he pauses mid-sentence to admonish people who find themselves laughing on the “fallacious” a part of a joke about Black folks. “That’s not the joke, folks which are laughing, that’s racism,” he says, in the midst of a string of jokes stuffed with racist assumptions. The admonishment capabilities as each a deflection and a protection.
After all, many comedians consider the reason for comedy itself makes it an unimpeachable excessive floor that justifies the efficiency of outlandish and offensive materials, and likewise lament the rise of fabled “woke scolds” who criticize comedy that targets the weak and the marginalized. Not like different comparable comics — Shane Gillis involves thoughts — who’ve doubled down on their offensive materials in recent times, Von tends to keep away from falling again on this rhetoric and largely appears to keep away from the dialog altogether. He’s taken with pushing the buttons, however he’s not so taken with pointing to the results he would possibly face for pushing them. Very similar to Rogan, whereas he aligns with Trump on vibes, and his jokes often give trolls and racists permission to chortle for all of the fallacious causes, his personal politics appear much more middle-of-the-road. In comedy, that successfully makes him a average.
Trump’s look on Von’s present, then, only a week after Sanders, says one thing in regards to the breadth and potential of those so-called dipshits in his viewers. That two main figures from both aspect of the political spectrum selected to look on a former Highway Guidelines-er’s video podcast is an incredibly in-kind end result for a contemporary web tradition that turns comedians into influencers and podcasters into pundits. Who will finally win their hearts — and votes — stays the query.
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